Is math unjust?

The Kuhner Report
Thursday, August 31st

Two national organizations of math teachers say math education is, “unjust and grounded in a legacy of institutional discrimination.” Do you agree?

00:40:52

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

To all four here on the great WRK. All okay my friends now. Speaking of a left wing moon bat is genius. Listen now to this. Many people many parents. Getting back into the routine of sending their kids to school kids are going back to school this week. From my national and started school the day today was his first day. Next choose they will be Avis first day so everybody now is going going back to school. And of course when you go back to school. One of the big things whether it be elementary middle school or high school is Matt. I got to learn Mac. Carpet math courses. Well. Now they are going to politicize. Math I swear to you listen now activists. Who national organizations. Of math features two of the biggest. Are now saying that they want to fundamentally change the way mathematics. Is off to the students in public schools. And in particular wide wide as a math have to be taught differently because they say that math education. The way it's been taught and that map itself. Has become quote unjust. And grounded in a quote legacy. Of institutional discrimination. And so in a joint statement these two national organizations have math teacher is. Are now saying. That making extra audience quote unquote mastered the basics. Unquote a math. They say leads to quote segregation. And quote separation. And sold to per man to what they say is this social injustice of the way math. The math and the way map has been taught them the education of math they say now and then this segregation and discrimination. That now math teacher it's neat to a dog ate quote unquote social justice stance. In the classroom. So they want their teachers now to basically become math teachers to become social justice warriors. In the classroom in the waited they teach math and the way they present the nature of math. And so the two big groups are the national council of supervisors of mathematics. And the total hopes mathematics for all. And so now they're saying starting this year. They are now telling math teachers their mission. Is to quote ratify social justice or Marines grew out of their statement. As a key priority. To be in the access to engagement width. And advancement in mathematics education for our country's youth. And they say the reason why now math teachers have to take a quote social justice plants. In the way they present the math teacher math and the way math is just delivered. It's because this challenges in the roles of power. Privilege. And oppression. That lady in the current unjust system. Of mathematics education. And in society allows a hole. In plain English. They what they lay out in their statements in plain English. Is that they feel that minorities in particular as well as women. Are they notice on the east test scores on tests are not as proficient. As other racial or ethnic groups. And they say that is inherently the nature of the bias of mathematics itself and the way it's being taught. And so for example. Now they are saying that two plus two men equal for. However if students believed to push do we equals three or two plus two equals five. Then you have to talk to the students. Led them express themselves. And by having dialogue with the students. You don't crush their self esteem I swear do you. I show where do you. This is now what they're peddling in the classroom. And that if you instill an ethic that you have to master mathematics. And in particular master the basics of math. Addition subtraction division multiplication. God forbid algebra. That this. Unfairly discriminates. Against certain minority groups and unfairly holds them back. And so you cannot then demand that they mastered the bay six you have to find ways for them. To be able to continue feel. They continue to feel. Like they're doing well. And that they're not doing poorly. And that they are proficient. Because if you keep reinforcing the fact they're not doing well enough. This whole stunt their development they say and really keep them in an impressive position throughout their entire lots. And this is now the mandate they have given to math teachers across the entire country. Doesn't matter for its high school middle school or elementary school. In other words in pure plain English. They now want to politicize math. Now a couple of points need to be said. And then I wanna ask all of you. Especially now with the kids going back to school how many viewed the parents think about this. The thing about mathematics. Is that up until now. Historically going back thousands of years. It was never political. Mathematics was completely independent of politics. This in some ways is almost the attraction of math it's also the importance of ma. Why. Because of mathematics is universal. It transcends cultures it transcends civilizations. It transcends race it transcend it transcends everything. It's universal. And it's logical. The reason why ill as a kid and I hated ma. All god that I he'd ma am high school much so much but in elementary school I hated math. But it was about a added but I just it was one of my least favorite classes. I hated math class. The reason why it's considered necessary to your education. On top of Reading writing it setter. Is because math teaches you logic. Math if I want bush put the most crude is way it's almost like he work out for your brain. It's like exercise. For your brain and the development of your brain. Math teachers you instinctively inherently. Logical thinking. Coherent thinking. And problem solving. Never mind you know the obvious skills of in all you gotta pay at the cash register there. You know whatever cost fifty dollars you give a hundred dollar you respect for two dollars and return. In other words just function at a basic level once the site they just leaving that practical aspect out of it. It's it's how do you teach symmetrical thinking logical coherent thinking. And problem solving. It's indispensable. And civilization. Once you start politicizing math are ya ya used. You're essentially. Destroying the ability of children and a leader adults to actually reason properly. And to think logically and to solve problems. That's why you never politicized math. Now. Their argument is that for example in some of these failing say inner city schools take Detroit Detroit's a classic example. You have eighth grade math students. Only 7%. Are deemed proficient. And so they're saying the reason why 7% are deemed proficient in math which to music tragedy. A tragedy of the highest order. It's because somehow math itself is now inherently racist. Or the way it's taught is somehow biased or racist. It has nothing to do with math. By the way I just wanna add one more point and and Juan. Take your calls. What they're also saying is that math is taught predominantly they say. By quote middle class and white math teachers. And that this needs to change because they're predominantly middle class and white. According to what they say. That they don't relate racially culturally demographically. With many of these more disadvantaged students. So if you have minority math teachers or lower income our teachers who come from lower income backgrounds. That somehow they will relate which stored and who better and they believe the test scores will go up. Nonsense. Absolute nonsense. Now we're playing identity politics. And injecting racial Zemin racism in the math. Math is the simplest in some ways it's he. Simplest thing in the world in the sense that two plus two equals four. Now that's a truth. It doesn't matter if you're black why it went. Two plus two equals four period. And what we need to be doing and what we're not doing in this country. Is having a secure classroom environment where teachers can teach. And having principal able to create a secure school environment. And so the teacher can come in and have the authority to sit these students down and say we're gonna learn basic arithmetic. We're gonna learn addition and subtraction multiplication. And when you get older algebra. You know and what to me is incredible it's what they're wrong most sang without saying. It's actually if anybody's being a racist and if anybody's being discriminatory. Are these two massive national organizations. Because they're basically saying that minorities need to be taught in a different winds. Not in the short quote unquote conventional way but somehow they just can't handle it if you just give him a straight instruction. That's blatant racism and discrimination. What they have instead put all due respect are failing schools. And they have failing schools because you have the teachers' union who will not allow many of the some of these horrible teachers to be fired. And they will not allow teachers and principals to instill the discipline in the order necessary. For these teachers to be able to do their jobs. And so what these kids need with all due respect. Is discipline in the classroom. Order in the classroom. And to have them learned your multiplication tables and learn addition and learn. The skills the critical skills of logical thinking and Mike coddling them. Or trying to teach them in some kind of a different way you're just cheating them. And the biggest problem they keep teaching to the test. Everybody is teaching to the test. Forget the free contests. That's the problem in this country they're always teaching to those ridiculous tests how the teachers teach math grade them. And if they don't know all you have them repeated and repeated and repeated and do the lessons over and over again until they get it right. That's what children need all children especially those in failing public schools. Now let me be really candid with you recommend the confessional. If there are problems at home with some of these children because there's drugs there's crime there's break and homes are broken families. Okay. Provide a school breakfast. And provide a school lunch. So at least when the children are learning they're not doing it on empty belly aches so they can concentrate and focus fine. But keep politics out of the classroom. And in particular. Keep politics out of math and arithmetic. Who watched who equals four. It doesn't equal five or three. Just because of the color of your skin or they want you to somehow become proficient when you're not proficient. And so my question to you now is this. The politicized nation of math. Is this a result of common core. Are we now seeing more fallout from common core. As they tried to slowly indoctrinate our children and destroyed their ability to reason and think for themselves. And is mathematics. Inherently racist and by its short teachers math teachers in particular. Be thinking of themselves as social justice activists. And warriors. And cater to their children's cultural background. When they're teaching mathematics. Or should they just sent my my former math teacher mr. love while he was a French Canadian. He came and he insisted on. On us being quiet in Klaus. He gave us our math lecture. And at the end but never for you every time he finishes lecturer he be 1015 minutes in the need to finish a part of his lecture. He would say. Questions. I can't believe there are all questions. Asked questions. You know the French accent always telling us if you don't understand ask questions. Come on ask questions. You don't know ask all explain again question and it's I want question and it's. I kept asking questions. And by the end for the tenth grade I came meaning mediocre math student. I ended up being the top math students in my class why because our past questions and he gave me answers. 6172666868. Mike in chime spurred go ahead Mike. Major powers I'm good how are you. If I could make a quick point the orchestra topic I would like it if you a group of people relying on our current government's order. What they're all put their money they are essentially slaves. Overall. In the school system it structure. My children attend public school it'll all and they are curriculum there is not correct that you open when they misspelled words. Dale while the children in class in the future will even write the word misspelled on the port that's to wait a child believes it should be spelt. So I saw and who know I've spoke few words actually how do you spell out. I see eight. Though it's and it's K eight G. Because the child in the classroom stole decay and so you order the order such. Such on this are not computers. Mike by the way this is exactly what Britney was saying. Before doing martial planning today it's common core. She kept saying Jack it's common courts comic core and Mike and I'm sure it it's common core we're gonna were comes to your child because. Would comment quarries it's about self esteem of the children. So don't tell the children that they're wrong if you tell right or wrong it damages are self esteem and so let him talk it ruled talked it through it. Hey if they spell it KAT instead of CHT what's the big deal because Michael all that matters is that child will feel good about himself for herself. You're right up our futures teaching that test because. My wife is a schoolteacher. And they are so much to rest of both feet it's these out. And that's all there is that matters to the school system is the host charts course. So they don't like their pick the teachers are more nervous in the store or tried to get the students took out there are. Bingo and I'll tell you why Mike and thank you for that call what do you ties. They're finding depends upon how well the students should do want the free contests. And really it's really it's it's our reading writing and math. So and then mandated that I think there's a fourth grade masters and eighth straight at every couple years there's these tests. And sold the school budget. And how well they're considered to be doing by the Department of Education is based on these tests. So all they wanted to do who is just make short at your trial just passed that test. And then of course let's say you have several different teachers at the same great. Well if mrs. Smith his students I don't know 80% of them are proficient in math and writing. But you know mrs. Johnson their only 73%. Well mrs. Smith is a better teacher than mrs. Johnson. Why because her students score higher on the best. So everything is about African test. But it's not about what your child really should know what your child learns. The Biggest Loser in this is your child. You as well as the taxpayer in the parent. And we as a society as a whole. But they're teaching to the test. And to be honest with you that's another reason why I hadn't I didn't send my kids for the public school. Demon on paying almost 9000 dollars a year property taxes but you should all but the test scores are from nominal. But sheriff who won the Palestinian state when it comes to us scores. I go and Donna. That in a buck get to a couple coffee okay terrorists. You're not teaching my child any thing. 61 except how to pass a free contest. 6172666868. Phil all great okay fairly in Manchester who I believe is a math teacher correct though. Yes Charlotte math teacher and I don't actually worked Manchester where it is similar to Manchester natural law that kind of sighed in I don't wanna stay on them he wanna do your job again. Epic has strike. So the problem the problem you know I've been in almost a decade. NASA typically high school level isn't just that so many others saying it's reworking the tests. Or are. People that they're trying to cater to its doing away with great skill and moving towards cough. Age rating which is gonna get watered down and is heavily being pushed towards app failing. Okay sorry Phil Phil just RD army because you're you're obviously an expert on this. When you say. Did the scale what's the skill at changing from grades to what. Well I mean used to be you know percentages they've lost aliens or 9792. Yes you know they'll let it. Now it's been it's really now where I work. ABC. Pylon. On blast is nine minus the bumpy but the W I did not. He's weakened weekend two in his movies. Nowadays so it's a year seek. He can't give apps in Lara because he can still anybody you can't you can. You can say that they have not proven. Themselves yet. You can say that they're not competent and yet you can say that there in progress but they haven't met standards yet which you can't say app are right out. Even at the end of the one at bat. Phil why I mean what's the reasoning what what when it was what they tell you teachers why can't she do that. Well it's basically like the student Justin in the air yet in the air on the way error in the need more tight and it's such courts in fact there. Where I work which might give away a little bit more. We have students who can be in a class or. Ninety days you know also lesser. And if they fail there than allowed five more weeks even to redo material and make it up and and get credit for the class but we keep in mind. That over those ninety days they are allowed to take every single exam. Even if they fail every single gram on the way. In every single damage sailing every single gram they don't get it back in ninety days they can apply. And certain avenues if the roads are paved they can then get five more weeks to recover. Okay now Phil I'm just curious though what what's the reason that they've told you why you can't they should say Jane Jane little Jane why can't you give little Cheney and half. You know you go is basically a language. Like its offensive to distill it. Changing the language I know other teachers that. Their mouths drop open when you use right end and because because the red is it negative. Image of the spear insinuation he prayed and read it should be leaner our orange purple despite the fact that renters. Completely opposite of what all the students you never really stands out as. Your response to there. Air worked in their effort. You and your language up anymore state copper or current I don't know. Phil what about you have to be a social justice warrior or social justice activist now as a math teacher. I mean how are you gonna do about how they want you to do that how can you do that. It struck apt BP everything I respect us so much aren't a lot of crowds here are just. Don't like to change I felt like a lot like some of the changes that are going on as well but we have. So much stop kept the bringing so many supplies. We have you give them more more food we have to let it make or more of their own decisions sometimes it by. Even at the highest level and in the lower their brains. Just not wired people well enough to try to make some of the season that they want their input on so. I don't like the way to most of the things are going it be the best shot and I try to respect what I need to do and stop by. We have to be action in their all the set that I think a lot to. Their their demise and you know when you let us here in retake it ain't got a book it ain't that just gonna set up there earlier in the real world that they re so opposite examine that they'll. That injury take it critic and nine months of fighting in the jobs gone down they weren't in accounting exam and a fairly accounting amp. Back at the drop Napoli six more months and that eight doubt call it all right this just all analyst. That's right or Phil just to keep your analogy is brilliant just to keep pushing it forward we try to be a radio talk show host and you can do a monologue. You don't you're gonna be off the air right away or if you're a mechanic. And you won't fix the car properly the customers gonna be mad and you're gonna get fired. And the end it all the degrades it. Prop up the Buick. It up for a lot. I think it is almost like no real air direction on. It stinks themselves. Out there sort of I think all. Things are going one direction and changing. So many initiatives that are coming down on all all over the place. Initiative after initiative after initiative pilot program. How programs to have time to testing out and roll them out for years what happened or. Eight or. A government or our town our you know some type of bodies. Happen. Phil I'm I'm up against that I got to go to a hard break protect you very much for your call. What I wanna ask especially the math teachers out there you know the parents are people who went to school. Five plus five equals ten right we all I hope we all agree on the if a student says five plus five equals nine or five plus five equals eleven how is that racist. Are we really honestly I mean how is that racist. And if the student can grasp of five plus five equals ten. How was it the teacher's fault about stoning can grasp it and that's somehow it's a sign of racism or the inherent injustice of mathematics. You're 37 year on the great WRKO. OK. Two of the biggest national organizations. Of math teachers. Are now is urging that all math teachers across the United States public schools. Elementary middle and high school. Now have to change the way math itself is spot because they say it is inherently unjust. And grounded in a system of institutional. Racism and discrimination. I wish I thought of this and I was going through elementary school Jeff. Pull lets you argue that you didn't do I won't do you want to ask you wanna believe and I wish that erupted as an actress skeletons school. This is that just because there is this Kennedy's against the red and open data ad hoc app app could pass a flight palace hit back at. The five plus you weren't big on five plus five equals that Dell is bullet algebra like life is going on man I'm gonna help me out here now did you pounds up. Not very well but we do got through I got through that a. 6172666868. Okay. They are now calling for math teachers to quote unquote become social justice activists. To understand the cultural needs of their students. And to have math we relate to them any way. That are promotes they say let as a body is less discrimination. Is map inherently racist. Or is it just universal. And logical. 6172666868. Rob in Charlestown. Go ahead romp. Hello rob. Yeah go ahead on the are going to drop. Almost started up and oh what bothered me it would be back at eight and go oh yeah. It but you portable. And he made it cult. The old pot it tests that would actually cool what they're not section went by the governor trying to fit in spectacle are. And I will be great. The plot and not quite excited at I don't know how they will come out put something like this and that you know we won't stand there will be no at all. Well no rob I mean I agree with few I mean look I know hundred divided by five gets you twenty I mean Mattias that's an objective truth. It did does no racism they are dismal politics there are just that's what it is a hundred divided by twenty gets you five or are divided by five gets you want me. No problem. And I coached and taught. Part time and out coached a long time and we are I got more success on the ball real regional banks in the I was able looked slow or structural football field electric ever. Not equal all the structure discipline and standards and we keep double standard structure and discipline anybody. Everybody as to what we're. Now are a rob very quickly. Why was it that you were able to have more structure and discipline on the football field and in the classroom. What was preventing you in the classroom from having that kind of order and discipline. Well I would too many rules about how looking this way and look that it would actually after that aren't. On the football field you consider what child at that very relaxed I think and every day that a lot. You tick away. Convoluted order saying take away that. Our purse structure will look structure in all it could be they are all in all aptly be AI RE. An individual basis and treat them as an individual went down. In its it'll do the talking about you don't got the real well we got every right and I that we thought I was go out. I'll let and we built a week you know we. Oh so we were caught sort under the microscope in what people say that. No testing I preparing to attack at salt tournament. The problem. Like this yeah. I ate all like I got to go there. Ellis at a hearing a child over to the a couple we built a lot. Now. Bingo bingo rob thank you very much for that call look I was as a professor army night we didn't use grades. Are these are reading news number grades and we didn't go 9287. We there was eight plus a minus B plus B. B minus six arrow so I remember I would give all let's say a beer B minus the Mike to my university students and the Haiti. I mean they hated it or C plus or whatever but I would tell him look if you wanna get a B plus surname minus her here's what you gotta do. You only got to study more got to learn to material more frankly wish that some writing classes you edit I express yourself better. There's many ways you can do it and it cannot do build them up. You say look you don't have to be stock get a seat Plosser a B minus if you don't want to. But you know the other thing rob and if you're a coach this is on said. If a player screws up. Or for players have been at least he or for player you know you're telling him that make a cot or to do this and not doing it you can sure mount a little bit. And as a coach you just can't. You can put a finger in the helmet or whatever and say Bobby or whatever you know you ought to do this battery that'll come on Sonja are put more into it. Cool. God forbid. If they teacher should never raised their voice or point their finger or you know chastise historic in the classroom are ya yeah ID. Well all you've got lost sold you've got the principal you've got the parents. Don't shoot talked to Mike Jimmy this way. And before you know it the port teachers can't say anything. That's another problem but let that go high eighty in Wakefield thanks for holding go and I. No I can't get it. He bit rate. Is being exchanged air air. And what actually got truly good church failure trying to common core edit one of the worst it is an educational ever. Secondly backer progressed that you don't understand that you parts to it or. Democratic out there. Like I. I regret that if you can't read that teaching situation is not at. Well Heidi you're dead on I'm just curious Heidi. I mean do you think. Is this do you think this is gonna gain steam you think they're gonna be able to try to politicize mouth. Or do you think they're very if you just gonna run up and hit Michael wall reality objectivity. You just you mean you can't do it in the end you just can't do it. Yeah probably won't object should image and unplug that confirmable are you Wear high heels on laying. I and I think objectivity gonna blow again. I effective for that call not a brilliant point. I mean think about Eric is completely right. If you can't do two plus two equals four. Well then you can do four plus four equals eight in other words you know you can't it's step one and then stepped goal and then step three and then step for. Well Asus and the same thing with writing and reading. You can't do a basic simple sentence you're not gonna learn punctuation in the remind paragraphs never write whatever you gotta do. In terms of properly expressing yourself. That's the problem. Nobody wants to failing by. Nobody wants to say you know one of the problem is the way we're structuring education. There's no authority in the classroom. Were not failing kids who deserve to fail. We're not see you know we're we're we're not holding our basic standards that you know I have that you that all of us had. Instead he shares excuse making an excuse making and in the end always playing the race card. It's always because of bias or racism or discrimination. No. If you. 61720666868. Paul in Salt Lake City going head ball. I told Jeff at the risk of being accused of lying attempt foil hats. I think something a little more insidious here I think this is a further until the liberation of objective standards. Truth error correct incorrect right wrong. If we can do is they can do it Mac. Where else. All they can do anything anything I mean all they can do anything anywhere. They're they're teaching the teachers not to teach objectivity. Therefore trained children that it's not about our objective truth and error right wrong correct incorrect and dad. It's about using an arbitrary authority which is really a schoolteacher in its apparent. It's not a relative it's arbitrary state sanctioned authority. And their training the kids that there is no such thing as objective truth. It's about pleasing this authority. I'm I'm I'm with you and I said this about common core from the beginning it is educational marxism. And educational socialism. And the goal of comic core I believe ultimately. Used to indoctrinate and brain wash her children. To destroy all standards. All the ability for larger coal rational thinking. And eventually their goal is to obviously make our our our children susceptible. To socialism completely. And you're seeing it now. And so now they wanna essentially rigged math or hard wire math into thinking well mall. In effect pony doesn't know two plus two equals four it's not because Tony is doesn't know that two plus two equals four because on as a wanna work hard. I'd learning mathematics. It's racist. It's his environment. It's the system man. It's a mathematics. Itself. It's inherently unjust it's inherently discriminatory. Like American society. Is supposedly inherently unjust. And discriminatory. Remember capitalism is inherently unjust and discriminatory. The constitution. Is inherently unjust and discriminatory. You see how they that you seek democracy is inherently her constitutional republic is inherently unjust and discriminatory. City that's the game. That's where it's all leading to. And so I hope the math teachers out fair statement for a blank you and he really just like off. No. Tool less who equals four. You don't like it there's the door. Don't blame racism blame you. Jimmie and Hyde Park go ahead Jimmy. You have to ask just cannot understand that that's all. There they are Kuralt thing you have to read remember when mark came out every day course. I would chapter duly you have spat between them in Korea am certain lines. Yell. You know African associate we're the nice colonial army. Failed you know that type of I mean Louis we weren't here now. And get things going got thrown it right away we. Arm and maybe your time we decode that metric and they proudly with understandable. He can you know basic after. Wait beyond that it. Possibly imagine it'll. I rosier think if if you can't teach basic math. You want to what the dumbing down of our population Hai ya ya well you know maybe you. Maybe I guess I don't know if they can balance the budget in congress and obviously nobody is congress can do bracelet acts. There are and I. One trillion dollars in debt. All everything is fine all we're ball will living within our means things have never been better what's one trillion dollars is nothing. Well meaning they're complaining about twenty trillion benign numbers you're racist you know it talking about is BI had to be older. Wanted Charlie do you maybe a lot but to me it's a it's inherently unjust system to say twenty trillion dollars a lot of money. So I figure if our politicians already don't know basic math worry even trying it why are we trying to teach our kids of that plot what's the point. Archie and eastern mass go ahead Archie. I have great Cheryl thank you Archie. I think it and then at the the main point why all this has been happening on actually hear it market. Matt what you talking about today. Guess it's all about money. Because of giving it implement our phonics. Yes she got a read with the weight and maybe with the whole world worried that. Because not yeah the people of different so you gonna spend more money in and you can picture it. Actually if they come up with a new method thinking look at each Matt groups. So I look at them that a couple who met that night there's been more money we're talking about the different things a big old on the school. That adds depth and along came up with dad and make money on protecting them any change that that the 34 years now. Elegantly acting was gonna happen acting it's not they're gonna find out. All of you war. How can happen somehow or another and it don't want socialism. Ollie at the school money interest is it okay. Archie interest staying in other words new textbooks constant new textbooks. You mean you name it new systems new programs. A year right look I know I worked out I'm an education think tank for several years in Washington. I am telling you education. Big money and I mean peak money now there's another way elicited WRK OLA.
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